In Conversation: De Staat
De Staat is a Dutch experimental rock band known for masterfully blending elements of alternative indie rock and electronic music. De Staat’s frontman, Torre Florim, recorded a debut album Wait for Evolution in his apartment in 2007 as a graduating project for a music production course. The band’s popularity escalated exponentially, subsequently leading to collaborating with Vance Powell, who had previously worked with Jack White and The Raconteurs, extensive touring alongside Muse and The Rolling Stones, and major festival gigs at Dot to Dot, Exit, Glastonbury, Sziget, and Lowlands. SonicAbuse, an independent website featuring an eclectic mix of underground indie music from heavy metal to jazz, described De Staat as genre-hopping Gremlins mixing grand slamming funk of Beck, the dance grooves of Kelis’ Milkshake, the horny soul of Queens of the Stone Age, and gothic romanticism of Nick Cave often within the same song. Nonconformist powerhouse? Check. Tireless dance machine? Check. Theatrical troupe? Check. De Staat is all of the above and the reason why rock music is not dead today.
KELLY KORZUN: Given your love for high-quality narrative and a need to entertain yourself during these brutal winters in the Netherlands, I assume that your life-long relationship with storytelling began very early on. What was your favorite book growing up in Nijmegen?
TORRE FLORIM: It’s a kids book called Niemand Houdt Mij Tegen by Evert Hartman, which translates as Nobody Can Stop Me. To be honest, I don’t remember much about the books I read in my early years, but this one sticks out because it introduced science fiction to me, and it remains one of my favorite genres. I guess it triggers an unlimited amount of imagination because, in science fiction, anything is possible. That idea is still very attractive to me. Building new worlds has always been my passion, be it writing, producing, mixing an album, or making music videos.
KK: As a fan of Soulwax/2manydjs, I was surprised that their KITTY KITTY remix did not deviate that far from the original. After going through many potential versions, you ended up opening the original track with this groovy bass line, which I think created a perfect foundation for Soulwax to play with. Sonically, even in its initial form, KITTY KITTY has Soulwax written all over it. Did you have an opportunity to collaborate on the remix with David and Stephen, or did it all just happen in silo?
TF: Simple transaction: sending the files and receiving the remix in a couple of months. Not very sexy, I know, but it is what it is. Not everything is a rock’n’roll story. Actually, most rock’n’roll isn’t a rock’n’roll story. We’ve talked once at a festival, but I’m pretty sure they didn’t realize it was me at the time, but I agree, KITTY KITTY does have a Soulwax taste to it anyway, which is probably why I wanted them to remix it in the first place.
KK: Also, the track ended up having a strong political aura, which I think has to do with the aggressive bass line setting the tone for the narrative – Trump’s presidential campaign in this case. Do you tend coming up with the music first, and then, depending on the vibe you’re going for, complimenting it with the lyrics so that it all makes sense stylistically?
TF: Yes, that’s always the case with me. Music just comes so damn quickly, way faster than lyrics.
KK: In 2016, you supported Muse on their European tour, one of the best live performers. What did it feel like playing a 360 stage while touring with the band you grew up listening to? Any specific takeaways or things you’ve learned from touring with them?
TF: It was definitely one of the highlights of my career. Being a part of a huge production like that and seeing all the big wheels in motion was so much fun. Normally, we end up learning a great deal from every band we tour with, but Muse specifically was great to learn from because of their big production choices and all that cutting-edge technology used in the show. Besides, I love playing in front of crowds who have no idea who we are. There’s so much to gain there as a band, so I’m very thankful to them for taking us on that crazy ride.
KK: When I went to Exit just one year prior to your gig in 2011, I remember it being both super fun and extremely overwhelming. From a fan perspective, it’s really hard to predict what your festival experience is gonna be like: bigger names might disappoint you due to high expectations, while the artists of smaller caliber, the hungry ones, might totally blow you away: although I was stoked about the OGs like LCD Soundsystem, DJ Shadow, Missy Elliott and Chemical Brothers, my personal award for the best show, hands down, went to Miike Snow who ended up playing in front of a very small crowd because not a lot of people knew who he was back in day. What’s your approach to navigating festivals of that scale, and how do you think your take on music festivals has changed over the years?
TF: Oh yeah. Exit. Since we had to play deep into the night around 2am, which was unusual for us, we really expected nobody to be there, but it ended up great. We later learned the whole thing typically starts later than we’re used to because of the heat in the summer. My take on festivals has definitely changed throughout the years. When it comes to festivals, I noticed that it’s harder to keep the crowd in a constant state of paying attention: you kinda have to wake them up every couple of songs. As a result, we end up making different choices in our set for a festival gig vs a club show, so I tend to prioritize songs that are loud and visually attractive, with hardly any quiet ones. We keep it moving constantly. At the same time, I like having some flexibility to change things up if I feel that’s needed at that moment, to expand or shorten songs or specific moments in the set: every crowd is different, every festival is different, and the vibe depends on so many factors you have zero control over as a band. Also, festivals tend to be so big nowadays. For a night show, we use songs with great light design. If we have a show during the day, the whole thing changes: some songs just don’t work right in the sun. I have written scripts for some of our bigger festival shows like Lowlands ’19 and Pinkpop ’22. If technically possible, we use LED screens and have the camera footage of the show behind us. We try to collaborate with the director to create a cool show for the cameras because most people are looking at the video screens anyway, and way more people end up watching the show on YouTube. Focusing on using the cameras to the fullest allows the crowd to experience our performance in way more detail.It has really become a double art form crafted not only for a crowd, but also for the camera.
KK: We’re now at a point where genre is disappearing, and this old-fashioned genre-based differentiation by The Grammys or any other similar institution makes less and less sense in 2022, especially when you look at, say, Kendrick, who masterfully blends hip-hop, jazz rap, and rock. Considering De Staat’s sound is rooted in the alternative rock & metal influences of the 2000s, from Deftones to NIN to Radiohead, where do you think rock music is at right now?
TF: Pfff, not sure, but I guess a true rock band should consist of guitars and feel loud or something? To be honest, I haven’t come across any rock bands that would make my blood flow for a while, but my favorites right now are IDLES, Fontaines DC, Frank Carter & the Rattlesnakes.
KK: De Staat came to life as a one-man project, and only two years later you surrounded yourself with a group of people that now, after over a decade of bromance, has officially become your second family. It’s hard to wrap your head around what band members go through when they lose a brother like Taylor Hawkins, Chester Bennington, Chris Cornell, or Keith Flint. Attachment is a blessing and a curse. On one hand, it gives you that sense of comfort and security, but, on the other hand, it makes you more vulnerable. From both personal and logistical aspects, what are the biggest challenges you have to navigate as a band?
TF: I’m not jealous of solo artists. As a band, you share both the comforts and the stress. It’s fun to share the highs and celebrate together because you end up experiencing it more consciously that way, and he lows are way more bearable if you go through them together. If you make a bad decision by yourself, you’re solely responsible – it’s all on you. If you did it together, you can be fairly certain it seemed the best idea at the time. The challenge with being in a group is that you have to be able to share without being jealous. Some people put way more time in than others, but everybody has their role to play. But most of all, you just have to be lucky. A group dynamic is not something that can be created, so luck is a major factor.
KK: One of the things that sets De Staat apart from anything else is that it always sounds different. When listening to your music, my brain would play this weird game of guessing what other artists could’ve released this material: Fake It Till You Make It has a Sacha Baron Cohen OST vibe to it and could’ve been released by Chromeo or Pharrell; Mona Lisa is pure Muse; Phoenix could’ve belonged to Thom Yorke, Foals, or even Metronomy, if you add a bit of plucky, off-center synth string to it; Input Source Select has a Beastie Boys flavor to it. The upside is that you never sound boring or repetitive. The risk here, I guess, is not being recognizable enough due to not having a so-called signature sound. To what extent is that important to you? Is it, at all?
TF: In the beginning, I used to worry about it, but I don’t anymore because I realized that our diversity is our strength, not our weakness. However, in order for it to be your strength, you should truly embrace it and use it with purpose. Some people call us unrecognizable, while others say we have an utterly distinct De Staat sound. I’ve heard it all, but none of it matters: we just make music we wanna make, and it’s made from everything. There’s always an idea behind what we do, but it’s absolutely fine if not everybody gets it. That’s the cool thing about art: it doesn’t have to conform to any stupid art rules.
KK: That’s actually another interesting thing about your creative approach. On one hand, you seem to be doing the fuck you want with no limitations in mind, but, on the other hand, you have a tendency to shape your work in a very intentional way. For example, Red Yellow Blue, a project inspired by Kandinsky’s color theory. What role do these boundaries play in your creative process?
TF: Limitation breeds creativity. Red Yellow Blue is indeed a three-way split allowing us not only to have fun and channel ourselves, but also to challenge ourselves. Sure, we wanted to make something different from the first five studio albums we did, but it’s mostly just about having fun. If you’re having fun, you keep going, but as soon as you stop having fun, you start hating it and, eventually, you stop. Having fun is always the key.
